<< I'm so buried in my studies and my other duties right now that I haven't had time to follow closely your postings regarding social dancing. But I am very glad you're doing this. I have had my run-ins with people arriving in NNN. from other trad parishes who have tried to impose the teaching they received elsewhere that social dancing between the unmarried is intrinsically evil. They cite the Scriptures, certain saints, and certain decrees of the American hierarchy from the last 150 years. This has caused no small amount of commotion in a parish of farmers who have grown up on barn dancing. I have been careful to formulate clear rejoinders to these arguments in order to leave no doubt that I have strong reasons for disagreeing with them and am not just (as has sometimes been the accusation) skirting the issue out of a fear to proclaim the truth.
For me, social dancing is no small matter. It plays into the larger issue of the problem of making our Catholic faith impossible to live -- to paraphrase St. Francis de Sales, insisting so forcefully that people become angels that they never get around to being good men. I will continue to thunder from the pulpit that parents must keep electronic devices out of their children's hands, but when it comes to dancing, get them out on the barn floor! >>
A college friend sent me this email after reading today's post:
<< I attended English country dance lessons for some years and I agree with you wholeheartedly. It was delightful and wholesome and very social, and the way things SHOULD be. One thing I loved was at the beginning of the dance, when the caller would say, “Reverence your partner.” That was lovely. And, my area of Kentucky was settled by English Catholics from Maryland. They were served by French priests who were fleeing the Revolution, but these French priests were also tinged with Jansenism. They forbade dancing, but when the English Dominicans came along to make a foundation, the Dominicans allowed dancing. The Dominicans, in my opinion and experience, seem to have a lot more common sense in general. Anyway, naturally, this situation caused some friction on the frontier, as you can imagine. :) >>
6 hrs ago·edited 6 hrs agoLiked by Peter Kwasniewski
Admittedly I did not read through the entire article (it's quite the scroller), however I read enough to see that we are in good, well-researched company. Catholics need to reclaim dancing in the proper form and context as a healthy cultural step in youthful life toward meeting a future spouse and continuing the forming of holy Catholic families.
To buttress your point on dancing as non-interfering with seminary/religious vocations, the largest Traditional Catholic community in the US (St. Mary's, KS) regularly holds (as in monthly) community Contra and Waltz dances (and has for years), which are chaperoned by Society priests or Academy/College representatives. This is how the good boys and girls learn to dance at their wedding receptions! (There's nothing quite as fun as watching a big group of young'uns dance a Virginia Reel to the The Ramblin' Rover at a Catholic wedding) :-)
St. Mary's is also the largest source of SSPX seminarians in the US, as it were. So there... ;-)
Thanks, I will certainly make an effort to finish the article.
Another thought. There is also our fun Shakespeare festival happening these next couple weekends (I highly recommend the trek down to visit, sometime), which hosts quite a bit of Irish/Scottish and folk dancing on the end of the grounds opposite the theatre. I must say I've never heard anyone complain about the dancing as evil or inappropriate...
Wonder what Ohio/KY frontier dancing was like? Read this about 18th c. pioneer priest Stephen Badin:
“Badin was genuinely concerned about other people’s spiritual condition. In fact, his level of concern well might have made him excessively rigid, or so he seemed on the frontier anyway. He had trouble relating to younger persons and considered such activities as dancing to be a sinful disgrace. In turn, many of the people Badin dealt with dismissed him as a ‘a strange-speaking Frenchman with unrealistically high moral standards.’”
Julian got married?! Caption of one video. (Surely that's worth a post or two.)
I wish I had learned how to dance (though I guess it's not too late) and been immersed in social situations where there was good dancing. When I think of good dancing, I think of Jane Austen.
For me it's very important to keep some kind of line between public and private life, so I did not want to talk about it beforehand while we were preparing, and afterwards we will let the dust settle before sharing photos. This seems to me to be a courtesy for all involved.
<< Thank you so much for this! As a student at TAC West, the dances have been so much fun, but I was rather confused by the prevalence of pop and rock, which in my opinion shouldn't have a place here. The dissonance between what we're studying and discussing, and the chaos of the music usually favored felt strange, but these past two articles definitely helped clear things up. I'll definitely have to do some more reading about this and corner someone to talk it over with. >>
Yes. What are these colleges doing when they play such bad music for their students? It's pure hypocrisy to read Plato, Aristotle, Boethius, and other classic authors on the morality of music and its profound effects on the soul, and then to let students bathe in sonic pollution. Marcus Berquist and Molly Gustin would cry shame on the current administration.
A traditional priest wrote to me:
<< I'm so buried in my studies and my other duties right now that I haven't had time to follow closely your postings regarding social dancing. But I am very glad you're doing this. I have had my run-ins with people arriving in NNN. from other trad parishes who have tried to impose the teaching they received elsewhere that social dancing between the unmarried is intrinsically evil. They cite the Scriptures, certain saints, and certain decrees of the American hierarchy from the last 150 years. This has caused no small amount of commotion in a parish of farmers who have grown up on barn dancing. I have been careful to formulate clear rejoinders to these arguments in order to leave no doubt that I have strong reasons for disagreeing with them and am not just (as has sometimes been the accusation) skirting the issue out of a fear to proclaim the truth.
For me, social dancing is no small matter. It plays into the larger issue of the problem of making our Catholic faith impossible to live -- to paraphrase St. Francis de Sales, insisting so forcefully that people become angels that they never get around to being good men. I will continue to thunder from the pulpit that parents must keep electronic devices out of their children's hands, but when it comes to dancing, get them out on the barn floor! >>
A college friend sent me this email after reading today's post:
<< I attended English country dance lessons for some years and I agree with you wholeheartedly. It was delightful and wholesome and very social, and the way things SHOULD be. One thing I loved was at the beginning of the dance, when the caller would say, “Reverence your partner.” That was lovely. And, my area of Kentucky was settled by English Catholics from Maryland. They were served by French priests who were fleeing the Revolution, but these French priests were also tinged with Jansenism. They forbade dancing, but when the English Dominicans came along to make a foundation, the Dominicans allowed dancing. The Dominicans, in my opinion and experience, seem to have a lot more common sense in general. Anyway, naturally, this situation caused some friction on the frontier, as you can imagine. :) >>
Admittedly I did not read through the entire article (it's quite the scroller), however I read enough to see that we are in good, well-researched company. Catholics need to reclaim dancing in the proper form and context as a healthy cultural step in youthful life toward meeting a future spouse and continuing the forming of holy Catholic families.
To buttress your point on dancing as non-interfering with seminary/religious vocations, the largest Traditional Catholic community in the US (St. Mary's, KS) regularly holds (as in monthly) community Contra and Waltz dances (and has for years), which are chaperoned by Society priests or Academy/College representatives. This is how the good boys and girls learn to dance at their wedding receptions! (There's nothing quite as fun as watching a big group of young'uns dance a Virginia Reel to the The Ramblin' Rover at a Catholic wedding) :-)
St. Mary's is also the largest source of SSPX seminarians in the US, as it were. So there... ;-)
Thanks, I know it's a long article but I hope you'll make time to go through it, especially the parts on magisterium and saints.
I've heard about those St Marys dances, this is great news.
Thanks, I will certainly make an effort to finish the article.
Another thought. There is also our fun Shakespeare festival happening these next couple weekends (I highly recommend the trek down to visit, sometime), which hosts quite a bit of Irish/Scottish and folk dancing on the end of the grounds opposite the theatre. I must say I've never heard anyone complain about the dancing as evil or inappropriate...
https://www.flinthillsshakespearefestival.com/
Yes, I've been invited by several kind people - just haven't gotten around to it (yet). Sounds like a true Catholic celebration!
Wonder what Ohio/KY frontier dancing was like? Read this about 18th c. pioneer priest Stephen Badin:
“Badin was genuinely concerned about other people’s spiritual condition. In fact, his level of concern well might have made him excessively rigid, or so he seemed on the frontier anyway. He had trouble relating to younger persons and considered such activities as dancing to be a sinful disgrace. In turn, many of the people Badin dealt with dismissed him as a ‘a strange-speaking Frenchman with unrealistically high moral standards.’”
Julian got married?! Caption of one video. (Surely that's worth a post or two.)
I wish I had learned how to dance (though I guess it's not too late) and been immersed in social situations where there was good dancing. When I think of good dancing, I think of Jane Austen.
Yes, he did, on September 14th. Deo gratias!
For me it's very important to keep some kind of line between public and private life, so I did not want to talk about it beforehand while we were preparing, and afterwards we will let the dust settle before sharing photos. This seems to me to be a courtesy for all involved.
Of course.
A student at Thomas Aquinas College wrote to me:
<< Thank you so much for this! As a student at TAC West, the dances have been so much fun, but I was rather confused by the prevalence of pop and rock, which in my opinion shouldn't have a place here. The dissonance between what we're studying and discussing, and the chaos of the music usually favored felt strange, but these past two articles definitely helped clear things up. I'll definitely have to do some more reading about this and corner someone to talk it over with. >>
Yes. What are these colleges doing when they play such bad music for their students? It's pure hypocrisy to read Plato, Aristotle, Boethius, and other classic authors on the morality of music and its profound effects on the soul, and then to let students bathe in sonic pollution. Marcus Berquist and Molly Gustin would cry shame on the current administration.