In the first part, I spoke about the humility Catholics should feel in the presence of “the cumulative piety of our precursors” and the gratitude we should have for an “irreplaceable inheritance that is simultaneously and inseparably doctrinal, catechetical, ascetical, mystical, sacramental, liturgical, and cultural.”
Our people have no idea what a TLM is since we don't have it here in Pakistan, after the 60's it disappeared, COVID effected us for a few weeks but then NO was back. Our children and youngsters have no respect for the mass as they have never been told nor corrected about their behaviour in church but we are coming along in this area although it is doubtful whether we'll ever have TLM again.
Yes, it's difficult in the "peripheries" (to use a favorite Pope Francis expression), where the TLM has not yet returned. One must persevere as well as one can in the circumstances, while praying that the Lord will someday restore the fortunes of Sion.
You still have the opportunity to read and teach your children the "dry" Mass from the missal. Sometimes you can watch a recording on YouTube and talk about it.
Fantastic job by Peter K! I would add that the Mass was instituted by Jesus Christ and codified in the 1500's, guided by the Holy Spirit. Should we accept the TLM as God inspired us to -- or should we now use a mass cobbled together by 5 protestant "theologians" (and I use that term very loosely!)?
A mass which is little more than 50 years old.
And what are the fruits of the NO? Mass attendance has cratered, the priesthood is deteriorating, convents are closing and monasteries are abandoned. It doesn't sound like the Holy Spirit is still guiding us!
"As for me and my house we shall follow the Lord."
Thank you. I would only note that the Protestant observers do not appear to have had much of a role except in the lectionary. It is still wrong that they were invited to begin with, part of the "ecumania" that governed church circles throughout the postwar period and led to so much watering-down of the Catholic Faith (lowest-common-denominator Christianity, instead of emphasizing what we have in common with apostolic bodies such as the Eastern Orthodox).
Moreover, although it is true to say the TLM was given its final codification in 1570, it existed substantially the same for centuries prior to that point. We must always fight against the notion that the TLM is "from 1570" and is therefore "about 400 years old." This is as false as the day is long.
It really is amazing if you look at the published editions of the Gregorian Sacramentary that are based on the manuscript that was sent by the pope to Charlemagne at the end of the 700s how many of the Collect prayer are identical to those in the 1962 missal. It is really breathtaking.
Yes. There was a point when I realized, "Oh wait - the Latin Mass as we have it today clearly goes back to the earliest centuries of the Latin Fathers of the Church. Okay. And the Novus Ordo was the cobbled-together brainchild of the hippies in power in the 1960s. Well, it's not a hard choice as to which is the real worship of the Catholic Church." Granted, this creates an apocalyptic crisis of ecclesiology, but hey, welcome to 2024.
I do recall reading from the visions of Blessed Catherine Emmerich about how Our Lord, after the resurrection and before the ascension, spent a lot of time specifically instructing Peter and John about how the Mass was to be celebrated. In some of her descriptions of the early Masses, I remember thinking how strikingly like the TLM they were.
Where I live there is no TLM or a traditional mass in English but the pews fill up because the parishioners have never known anything different and they tend to believe in what the Church tells them. There is also no alternative to the NO mass. I no longer go very often. In their desperation to to capture the interest of a younger generation they have children do readings and help the priest. The soft rock choir is entertaining at first but it soon becomes very banal. I went to a few meetings of the parish council but they are rock solid in not changing, or even offering something a little less...um....
Yes. This is a real trial. And as I will discuss in part 4, there is now a pseudo-tradition of several decades' standing that functions as if it were tradition, when, in substance, it is anything but.
No they aren't going to change anything. You don't get on the parish council unless you are a company man/woman.
You're right though about the pews still filling up, at least a lot of the way. I have been to a few parishes in my dioceses that consistently offer just God awful liturgies with bad music sung both terribly and loud - and yet the pews are still pretty full. Bizarrely this sort of deliberate mediocrity is what people have come to expect when they 'go to church' and they don't seem to be particularly bothered by it.
They may make fun of it outside of the church building but they still for a whole host of reasons keep showing up every Sunday and dropping enough money in the collection plate to give our prelates an easy life.
The Covid Mass stoppage might have put an end to it, or at least began the process of putting an end to it, but the Masses came back too fast and everything just continued on its miserable path.
Actually, Eric, the statistics showed a huge drop in attendance since Covid, and it has not recovered. I don't deny that there are still vibrant communities here and there in the Novus Ordo world, but there's a reason practically every diocese is launching its Orwellian-named programs like "Beacon of the Future" and "Building the City of God" and whatever, in order to drastically reduce the number of parishes. There are no longer enough attendees or clergy to cover the churches. Yes, a lot will continue to function on the fumes of Catholicism but it is only where the Faith is fully embraced and lived that it has any long-term future.
I would hesitate to call anything in the Novus Ordo world 'vibrant'. And no it doesn't have a long term future though what exactly its demise will look like is still unknown.
I guess my main point is that people still keep giving their money for whatever reason. I think Eric Sammons recently made the point that even if there have been attendance drops in some place the drop in donations is not nearly as significant. And until the gravy train dries up these people are still going to keep doing what they're doing.
If they don't produce any vocations fine they will just keep flashing cash at what used to be called 'third world' dioceses in order to import priests who will keep the show rolling until it finally stops.
You are certainly right about that. I'm appalled that any Catholics still give money either to their dioceses or to the pope. There are some exceptional dioceses that deserve lay support, but generally most of them don't; and as for the Vatican, you'd have to be an absolute moron to give them a penny.
Interesting comment! I'm still torn about this: we have an obligation of precept to "support the needs of the Church." I tend to the view that what the Church needs is lay faithful who hold corrupt clergy accountable by not continuing to fund their corruption. But that means not just not supporting the diocese, but not supporting the parish, since parish funds are taxed to fund the diocese. So is that your view: Cut off funds to support the local parish? (Even if one still attends??)
100% in agreement. The question of Vatican finances is a universe unto itself but parish and diocesan officials have sadly developed a knack for attracting and gas lighting well heeled members of their flocks in order to keep the wheels of all of their pet projects greased but that is another subject for another time I suppose.
In St. Louis, it's "All Things New" and awful. They say STL doesn't have the money or enough priests and all these parishes must go away. But we know the Archdiocese is more flush w/cash than ever before and they're forcing priests to retire early. WHY would that be, I wonder? Would it be b/c they need an excuse to have female "deaconesses" take over parishes? Our Ordinary is a lackey of he-that-reigns-in-Chicagoland and the only hope I cling to is our diocesan TLM is burgeoning. I pray it perseveres. If not, I'll run to ICKSP or SSPX.
Matt 5:4 (ESV) “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
We mourn of “whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise.” (Philippians 4:8) that were lost.
Things are being replaced with banal, robotic, mundane, ordinary, common, plain, not worthy of any consideration mentioned by St Paul to the Philippians above.
Thank you Dr. K for offering the option of listening to you read the article. I listen while I am sewing TLM vestments!!
Now, THAT's what I like to hear! :-)
Our people have no idea what a TLM is since we don't have it here in Pakistan, after the 60's it disappeared, COVID effected us for a few weeks but then NO was back. Our children and youngsters have no respect for the mass as they have never been told nor corrected about their behaviour in church but we are coming along in this area although it is doubtful whether we'll ever have TLM again.
Yes, it's difficult in the "peripheries" (to use a favorite Pope Francis expression), where the TLM has not yet returned. One must persevere as well as one can in the circumstances, while praying that the Lord will someday restore the fortunes of Sion.
You still have the opportunity to read and teach your children the "dry" Mass from the missal. Sometimes you can watch a recording on YouTube and talk about it.
Thank you! That Congar quote is really excellent.
Fantastic job by Peter K! I would add that the Mass was instituted by Jesus Christ and codified in the 1500's, guided by the Holy Spirit. Should we accept the TLM as God inspired us to -- or should we now use a mass cobbled together by 5 protestant "theologians" (and I use that term very loosely!)?
A mass which is little more than 50 years old.
And what are the fruits of the NO? Mass attendance has cratered, the priesthood is deteriorating, convents are closing and monasteries are abandoned. It doesn't sound like the Holy Spirit is still guiding us!
"As for me and my house we shall follow the Lord."
SLT
Thank you. I would only note that the Protestant observers do not appear to have had much of a role except in the lectionary. It is still wrong that they were invited to begin with, part of the "ecumania" that governed church circles throughout the postwar period and led to so much watering-down of the Catholic Faith (lowest-common-denominator Christianity, instead of emphasizing what we have in common with apostolic bodies such as the Eastern Orthodox).
Moreover, although it is true to say the TLM was given its final codification in 1570, it existed substantially the same for centuries prior to that point. We must always fight against the notion that the TLM is "from 1570" and is therefore "about 400 years old." This is as false as the day is long.
It really is amazing if you look at the published editions of the Gregorian Sacramentary that are based on the manuscript that was sent by the pope to Charlemagne at the end of the 700s how many of the Collect prayer are identical to those in the 1962 missal. It is really breathtaking.
Yes. There was a point when I realized, "Oh wait - the Latin Mass as we have it today clearly goes back to the earliest centuries of the Latin Fathers of the Church. Okay. And the Novus Ordo was the cobbled-together brainchild of the hippies in power in the 1960s. Well, it's not a hard choice as to which is the real worship of the Catholic Church." Granted, this creates an apocalyptic crisis of ecclesiology, but hey, welcome to 2024.
I do recall reading from the visions of Blessed Catherine Emmerich about how Our Lord, after the resurrection and before the ascension, spent a lot of time specifically instructing Peter and John about how the Mass was to be celebrated. In some of her descriptions of the early Masses, I remember thinking how strikingly like the TLM they were.
Where I live there is no TLM or a traditional mass in English but the pews fill up because the parishioners have never known anything different and they tend to believe in what the Church tells them. There is also no alternative to the NO mass. I no longer go very often. In their desperation to to capture the interest of a younger generation they have children do readings and help the priest. The soft rock choir is entertaining at first but it soon becomes very banal. I went to a few meetings of the parish council but they are rock solid in not changing, or even offering something a little less...um....
Yes. This is a real trial. And as I will discuss in part 4, there is now a pseudo-tradition of several decades' standing that functions as if it were tradition, when, in substance, it is anything but.
No they aren't going to change anything. You don't get on the parish council unless you are a company man/woman.
You're right though about the pews still filling up, at least a lot of the way. I have been to a few parishes in my dioceses that consistently offer just God awful liturgies with bad music sung both terribly and loud - and yet the pews are still pretty full. Bizarrely this sort of deliberate mediocrity is what people have come to expect when they 'go to church' and they don't seem to be particularly bothered by it.
They may make fun of it outside of the church building but they still for a whole host of reasons keep showing up every Sunday and dropping enough money in the collection plate to give our prelates an easy life.
The Covid Mass stoppage might have put an end to it, or at least began the process of putting an end to it, but the Masses came back too fast and everything just continued on its miserable path.
Actually, Eric, the statistics showed a huge drop in attendance since Covid, and it has not recovered. I don't deny that there are still vibrant communities here and there in the Novus Ordo world, but there's a reason practically every diocese is launching its Orwellian-named programs like "Beacon of the Future" and "Building the City of God" and whatever, in order to drastically reduce the number of parishes. There are no longer enough attendees or clergy to cover the churches. Yes, a lot will continue to function on the fumes of Catholicism but it is only where the Faith is fully embraced and lived that it has any long-term future.
I would hesitate to call anything in the Novus Ordo world 'vibrant'. And no it doesn't have a long term future though what exactly its demise will look like is still unknown.
I guess my main point is that people still keep giving their money for whatever reason. I think Eric Sammons recently made the point that even if there have been attendance drops in some place the drop in donations is not nearly as significant. And until the gravy train dries up these people are still going to keep doing what they're doing.
If they don't produce any vocations fine they will just keep flashing cash at what used to be called 'third world' dioceses in order to import priests who will keep the show rolling until it finally stops.
You are certainly right about that. I'm appalled that any Catholics still give money either to their dioceses or to the pope. There are some exceptional dioceses that deserve lay support, but generally most of them don't; and as for the Vatican, you'd have to be an absolute moron to give them a penny.
Interesting comment! I'm still torn about this: we have an obligation of precept to "support the needs of the Church." I tend to the view that what the Church needs is lay faithful who hold corrupt clergy accountable by not continuing to fund their corruption. But that means not just not supporting the diocese, but not supporting the parish, since parish funds are taxed to fund the diocese. So is that your view: Cut off funds to support the local parish? (Even if one still attends??)
100% in agreement. The question of Vatican finances is a universe unto itself but parish and diocesan officials have sadly developed a knack for attracting and gas lighting well heeled members of their flocks in order to keep the wheels of all of their pet projects greased but that is another subject for another time I suppose.
In St. Louis, it's "All Things New" and awful. They say STL doesn't have the money or enough priests and all these parishes must go away. But we know the Archdiocese is more flush w/cash than ever before and they're forcing priests to retire early. WHY would that be, I wonder? Would it be b/c they need an excuse to have female "deaconesses" take over parishes? Our Ordinary is a lackey of he-that-reigns-in-Chicagoland and the only hope I cling to is our diocesan TLM is burgeoning. I pray it perseveres. If not, I'll run to ICKSP or SSPX.
MOURN
Matt 5:4 (ESV) “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
We mourn of “whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise.” (Philippians 4:8) that were lost.
Things are being replaced with banal, robotic, mundane, ordinary, common, plain, not worthy of any consideration mentioned by St Paul to the Philippians above.