"These experiences have convinced me more than ever that nothing could have been more foolish for the West than to turn its ecumenical attention toward convergence with Protestants rather than toward reunification with the East. We should have leaned heavily into what most unites the apostolic churches, rather than discarding it to emulate mistakes of the Reformation era." Yes. I allow myself to indulge in an alternate timeline, in which V2 never happened (or at least the NO never implemented), Russia was properly consecrated to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart, and Pope Leo XIV presided at the reunion celebration in Hagia Sophia for the 1700 year anniversary of Nicaea.
“These experiences have convinced me more than ever that nothing could have been more foolish for the West than to turn its ecumenical attention toward convergence with Protestants rather than toward reunification with the East. We should have leaned heavily into what most unites the apostolic churches, rather than discarding it to emulate mistakes of the Reformation era."
I don’t think I ever even thought of this as an option growing up, but I think it is spot on. I think it’s hard for a lot of Americans to conceive of putting ecumenical efforts towards this because there are so few Orthodox in America so the Orthodox seem very foreign to us.
That's a fair point; certainly Protestantism dominates in the West. But it's clear even from Vatican II's documents that the Church sees herself as present in the Eastern rites, and having some relationship to the Orthodox, that cannot be said of Protestantism. And certainly more recently the internet has made Orthodoxy very prominent.
What an absolute delight to "travel with you" to Greece and Turkey. The first part of our honeymoon 19 years ago was precisely Greece. Unfortunately back then we were not in our faith where we, by the Grace of God, are now. So I look forward to revisit many of our destinations and rediscover them in the way you have in this trip. Thank you for sharing!
I've often said in my life, "Travel is wasted on the young." This isn't strictly true, but often we are not mature enough to appreciate what we are seeing. That's been my experience.
Well, Dr K, you saved the best for last! Thank you so much. I have always been moved by Blessed Anna Catherine Emmerich's account of Our Lady's life in Ephesus and her stations of the Cross which she would often make. To see the actual place is a great blessing. Amazing photos of the rest of your journey. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for your 'trip report', I much enjoyed reading it.
FWIW, some 40 odd years ago, we also visited much of the same area, including Patmos, Ephesus and 'Our Lady's House'.
Still, I do not recall seeing the 'wishing wall' and, judging by how 'visible' it would be, I conclude it has been added since my visit.
As for Quod scripsi's comment on VII and the consecration asked for by Our Lady: I recently read Fr Murr's booklet on JP I's time, and I could not help concluding that the 'opposition' took Our Lady's message of Fatima much more seriously than most Catholics, specifically the (top) hierarchy. According to the account from that book, 'they' instituted a very thorough and effective vetting, under Cdl Baggio, of candidate bishops.
There is no doubt in my mind, that the failure to get the consecration done as asked for, as well as the next to non-existent support and implementation of Humanae Vitae, is a direct result of this vett(o)ing.
A fine conclusion to the series. The juxtaposition of eastern and western chant in the video was especially lovely, and drives home the kinship of the traditions -- when genuinely expressed.
Two quibbles.
First, I am surprised at your derogatory comment about our Lady's wishing wall. That a custom is pagan in origin hardly tells us anything about its fittingness, once duly cleansed and ennobled by "baptism." No?
Second, I regret that you characterize an emphasis on "readings" and "preaching" as Protestant. Surely, you mean an "imbalanced emphasis"; nevertheless, the remark is telling, given the somewhat degraded state of Catholic homiletics. A perusal of the sermons of, for instances, Augustine and John Chrysostom indicate that our holy fathers discoursed on Sacred Scripture at length and in detail (for instance, the former's inaugural homily on the Gospel of John runs over five thousand words). I realize that they also preached topically and occasionally, and there is some question as to the situation of the homilies we possess (before, during, or after the divine liturgy, or perhaps outside it altogether?). Nevertheless, it seems to me that we traditionalists would do well to recover, to some extent, the expository style, which is bizarrely thought to be the property of Protestantism, when in fact it is thoroughly Catholic. If there is one genuine fruit of the conciliar era, it is the renewed sense of the organic unity between the the preaching of the Word and the celebration of the Holy Eucharist (Chrysostom's Homily 3 on Ephesians is a magnificent example of this truth). The faithful would be well served by preaching that pays greater attention to, and cleaves more nearly to, Sacred Scripture, such that doctrinal teaching and moral exhortation are guided thereby. Indeed, there is an interesting argument to be made that preaching that fails to give serious consideration to the lections of the Mass effectively neglects the provision of Holy Mother Church, and therefore contemns the wisdom and spiritual riches of tradition.
Moreover, I firmly advocate that homiletics should be rooted in Scripture, as we see in the Church Fathers.
My point was rather than Protestant worship is in many ways *reduced* to a somewhat didactic activity with the Bible and some singing, and this has been pointed out by innumerable better men than I (e.g., Newman, Benson, Knox).
We should, however, resist the trend to make the homily an integral part of the liturgy, for the reasons given here:
I essentially concur with the position expressed in your fine Remnant article. In particular, you allude to the important but under-discussed distinction between the proclamation and the exposition of the Word. Modernly, we tend to conflate these actions. In truth, proclamation does not absolutely demand exposition. This truth might startle a Protestant (and perhaps a contemporary Catholic), though actually it is consonant with the exalted Protestant view of Scripture, which affirms that the Word has a power of its own -- perhaps even if not perfectly grasped at first encounter. (Of course, we more or less share this perspective, properly nuanced.)
All to say, I agree that preaching is not per se an "integral part" of the divine liturgy. However, I would maintain that, as a rule and ideal, a knowledge of and familiarity with Sacred Scripture is an "integral part" of the Christian life. Because most laymen lack the time and training to competently handle the Word, such knowledge and familiarity requires that they frequently sit under able preachers. It would be lovely if there were occasion for regular preaching outside Holy Mass -- as was the case in previous ages -- but I doubt if pastors and people alike have the capacity and inclination today. Thus, in practice, rather than in theory, preaching needs be most intimately allied to the liturgy, and particularly Holy Mass.
"As a rule and ideal, a knowledge of and familiarity with Sacred Scripture is an 'integral part' of the Christian life."
Yes! St. Jerome's famous statement "Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ," while it should not be turned into an absolute, nevertheless expresses a truth of immense power.
I have long lamented that preaching is so detached from the liturgy as such. The best homilies I've ever heard wove together the readings and the texts of the Mass in such a way as to open up all kinds of doors and windows to let the light of God shine in.
And it is worth noting that Jerome wrote those words in the context of an Old Testament commentary. How many Catholics are utterly lost in the face of Isaiah and Jeremiah, to say nothing of Ezekiel and Daniel? Yet the treasures of Christ are found in those pages.
Of course, it goes too far to claim that every single layman, even every single cleric, must know the Bible inside out and backward. After all, the new covenant, with its living and life-giving law, is written on the heart with the grace of the Holy Spirit, as Thomas observes. And I would wager that a Catholic who diligently attends Mass year in and year out has a better grasp of the course and gist of Scripture than is commonly supposed, even if he lacks chapter and verse recall.
There's a balance to be struck. Not sure we have achieved it -- but one day, hopefully.
Dr. K, I was eagerly awaiting your details about your day in Ephesus. My wife and sons, did a very similar tour this summer. Even the exact same rug shop! To say it was life-changing for all of us, is an understatement. The House of the Blessed Mother was just incredible. So very blessed to be able to be there. I share your thought on the ancient city of Ephesus. We were fortunate to have a very good tour guide. For our sons (in their 20s), it brought to life all of the stories they had been taught and heard so many times before. It made the Blessed Mother, John, and Paul real to them. Only downside for us: we booked our tour through Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean had set up, as part of the tour, a "Catholic Mass". It was Novus Ordo, but the priest seemed holy and made it as reverent as he could under the circumstances of his formation and current state of the Church. As regular TLM attendees, this also gave us perspective. Several of the non-Catholics on the tour got up and left angrily during the Confiteor. And, of course, the Our Father when the Protestants keep it going with "Thine is the kingdom..." The priest cut them off, which was nice. Interesting for our of sons to see. Holy Communion was also an interesting spectacle for our sons. Sometimes you don't realize how good you have it in our local churches in the KC area. Wish we could have celebrated the ancient rites there as many pilgrims had likely done before. But, all in all an experience I cannot recommend highly enough. God bless you and thank you for all you do!
Thank you for sharing these experiences from your pilgrimage. I will admit that having now gone on a TLM pilgrimage, I couldn't imagine doing anything different, and I recommend that any Catholic thinking about a pilgrimage should take the time to seek out a TLM one. St. Charles Pilgrimages, the organization that ran mine, is teaming up a lot these days with FSSP and ICKSP clergy.
Overall, I would say visiting these historic sites really does bring home the reality of the persons and places involved in our Christian and Catholic faith. This is helpful in an age of "virtual reality" where we do not pay enough attention to the concrete dimension of things.
KC is indeed blessed: FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX, and Gower not far away!
Thank you for the info about St. Charles Pilgrimages. One definite takeaway from the trip is that we would like to do more pilgrimages. I have been afraid to sign up for some for fear of it not being traditionally oriented. Much appreciated!
"These experiences have convinced me more than ever that nothing could have been more foolish for the West than to turn its ecumenical attention toward convergence with Protestants rather than toward reunification with the East. We should have leaned heavily into what most unites the apostolic churches, rather than discarding it to emulate mistakes of the Reformation era." Yes. I allow myself to indulge in an alternate timeline, in which V2 never happened (or at least the NO never implemented), Russia was properly consecrated to Our Lady's Immaculate Heart, and Pope Leo XIV presided at the reunion celebration in Hagia Sophia for the 1700 year anniversary of Nicaea.
What a tremendous vision that is! Worthy of Robert Hugh Benson!
Beautiful churches! Wow! I love this quote—
“These experiences have convinced me more than ever that nothing could have been more foolish for the West than to turn its ecumenical attention toward convergence with Protestants rather than toward reunification with the East. We should have leaned heavily into what most unites the apostolic churches, rather than discarding it to emulate mistakes of the Reformation era."
I don’t think I ever even thought of this as an option growing up, but I think it is spot on. I think it’s hard for a lot of Americans to conceive of putting ecumenical efforts towards this because there are so few Orthodox in America so the Orthodox seem very foreign to us.
That's a fair point; certainly Protestantism dominates in the West. But it's clear even from Vatican II's documents that the Church sees herself as present in the Eastern rites, and having some relationship to the Orthodox, that cannot be said of Protestantism. And certainly more recently the internet has made Orthodoxy very prominent.
What an absolute delight to "travel with you" to Greece and Turkey. The first part of our honeymoon 19 years ago was precisely Greece. Unfortunately back then we were not in our faith where we, by the Grace of God, are now. So I look forward to revisit many of our destinations and rediscover them in the way you have in this trip. Thank you for sharing!
I've often said in my life, "Travel is wasted on the young." This isn't strictly true, but often we are not mature enough to appreciate what we are seeing. That's been my experience.
Well, Dr K, you saved the best for last! Thank you so much. I have always been moved by Blessed Anna Catherine Emmerich's account of Our Lady's life in Ephesus and her stations of the Cross which she would often make. To see the actual place is a great blessing. Amazing photos of the rest of your journey. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for your 'trip report', I much enjoyed reading it.
FWIW, some 40 odd years ago, we also visited much of the same area, including Patmos, Ephesus and 'Our Lady's House'.
Still, I do not recall seeing the 'wishing wall' and, judging by how 'visible' it would be, I conclude it has been added since my visit.
As for Quod scripsi's comment on VII and the consecration asked for by Our Lady: I recently read Fr Murr's booklet on JP I's time, and I could not help concluding that the 'opposition' took Our Lady's message of Fatima much more seriously than most Catholics, specifically the (top) hierarchy. According to the account from that book, 'they' instituted a very thorough and effective vetting, under Cdl Baggio, of candidate bishops.
There is no doubt in my mind, that the failure to get the consecration done as asked for, as well as the next to non-existent support and implementation of Humanae Vitae, is a direct result of this vett(o)ing.
Yes. This is also the perspective one gets in "Windswept House."
Dr. K.,
A fine conclusion to the series. The juxtaposition of eastern and western chant in the video was especially lovely, and drives home the kinship of the traditions -- when genuinely expressed.
Two quibbles.
First, I am surprised at your derogatory comment about our Lady's wishing wall. That a custom is pagan in origin hardly tells us anything about its fittingness, once duly cleansed and ennobled by "baptism." No?
Second, I regret that you characterize an emphasis on "readings" and "preaching" as Protestant. Surely, you mean an "imbalanced emphasis"; nevertheless, the remark is telling, given the somewhat degraded state of Catholic homiletics. A perusal of the sermons of, for instances, Augustine and John Chrysostom indicate that our holy fathers discoursed on Sacred Scripture at length and in detail (for instance, the former's inaugural homily on the Gospel of John runs over five thousand words). I realize that they also preached topically and occasionally, and there is some question as to the situation of the homilies we possess (before, during, or after the divine liturgy, or perhaps outside it altogether?). Nevertheless, it seems to me that we traditionalists would do well to recover, to some extent, the expository style, which is bizarrely thought to be the property of Protestantism, when in fact it is thoroughly Catholic. If there is one genuine fruit of the conciliar era, it is the renewed sense of the organic unity between the the preaching of the Word and the celebration of the Holy Eucharist (Chrysostom's Homily 3 on Ephesians is a magnificent example of this truth). The faithful would be well served by preaching that pays greater attention to, and cleaves more nearly to, Sacred Scripture, such that doctrinal teaching and moral exhortation are guided thereby. Indeed, there is an interesting argument to be made that preaching that fails to give serious consideration to the lections of the Mass effectively neglects the provision of Holy Mother Church, and therefore contemns the wisdom and spiritual riches of tradition.
In Christ,
Philip
Dear Philip,
Ah, don't misunderstand me. I have nothing against great preaching, as you will see from here:
https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2014/01/where-have-all-good-preachers-gone.html
Moreover, I firmly advocate that homiletics should be rooted in Scripture, as we see in the Church Fathers.
My point was rather than Protestant worship is in many ways *reduced* to a somewhat didactic activity with the Bible and some singing, and this has been pointed out by innumerable better men than I (e.g., Newman, Benson, Knox).
We should, however, resist the trend to make the homily an integral part of the liturgy, for the reasons given here:
https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/5234-the-homily-is-not-part-of-the-liturgy
God bless!
Dr. K.,
I essentially concur with the position expressed in your fine Remnant article. In particular, you allude to the important but under-discussed distinction between the proclamation and the exposition of the Word. Modernly, we tend to conflate these actions. In truth, proclamation does not absolutely demand exposition. This truth might startle a Protestant (and perhaps a contemporary Catholic), though actually it is consonant with the exalted Protestant view of Scripture, which affirms that the Word has a power of its own -- perhaps even if not perfectly grasped at first encounter. (Of course, we more or less share this perspective, properly nuanced.)
All to say, I agree that preaching is not per se an "integral part" of the divine liturgy. However, I would maintain that, as a rule and ideal, a knowledge of and familiarity with Sacred Scripture is an "integral part" of the Christian life. Because most laymen lack the time and training to competently handle the Word, such knowledge and familiarity requires that they frequently sit under able preachers. It would be lovely if there were occasion for regular preaching outside Holy Mass -- as was the case in previous ages -- but I doubt if pastors and people alike have the capacity and inclination today. Thus, in practice, rather than in theory, preaching needs be most intimately allied to the liturgy, and particularly Holy Mass.
In Christ,
Philip
"As a rule and ideal, a knowledge of and familiarity with Sacred Scripture is an 'integral part' of the Christian life."
Yes! St. Jerome's famous statement "Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ," while it should not be turned into an absolute, nevertheless expresses a truth of immense power.
I have long lamented that preaching is so detached from the liturgy as such. The best homilies I've ever heard wove together the readings and the texts of the Mass in such a way as to open up all kinds of doors and windows to let the light of God shine in.
Indeed.
And it is worth noting that Jerome wrote those words in the context of an Old Testament commentary. How many Catholics are utterly lost in the face of Isaiah and Jeremiah, to say nothing of Ezekiel and Daniel? Yet the treasures of Christ are found in those pages.
Of course, it goes too far to claim that every single layman, even every single cleric, must know the Bible inside out and backward. After all, the new covenant, with its living and life-giving law, is written on the heart with the grace of the Holy Spirit, as Thomas observes. And I would wager that a Catholic who diligently attends Mass year in and year out has a better grasp of the course and gist of Scripture than is commonly supposed, even if he lacks chapter and verse recall.
There's a balance to be struck. Not sure we have achieved it -- but one day, hopefully.
Dr. K, I was eagerly awaiting your details about your day in Ephesus. My wife and sons, did a very similar tour this summer. Even the exact same rug shop! To say it was life-changing for all of us, is an understatement. The House of the Blessed Mother was just incredible. So very blessed to be able to be there. I share your thought on the ancient city of Ephesus. We were fortunate to have a very good tour guide. For our sons (in their 20s), it brought to life all of the stories they had been taught and heard so many times before. It made the Blessed Mother, John, and Paul real to them. Only downside for us: we booked our tour through Royal Caribbean. Royal Caribbean had set up, as part of the tour, a "Catholic Mass". It was Novus Ordo, but the priest seemed holy and made it as reverent as he could under the circumstances of his formation and current state of the Church. As regular TLM attendees, this also gave us perspective. Several of the non-Catholics on the tour got up and left angrily during the Confiteor. And, of course, the Our Father when the Protestants keep it going with "Thine is the kingdom..." The priest cut them off, which was nice. Interesting for our of sons to see. Holy Communion was also an interesting spectacle for our sons. Sometimes you don't realize how good you have it in our local churches in the KC area. Wish we could have celebrated the ancient rites there as many pilgrims had likely done before. But, all in all an experience I cannot recommend highly enough. God bless you and thank you for all you do!
Thank you for sharing these experiences from your pilgrimage. I will admit that having now gone on a TLM pilgrimage, I couldn't imagine doing anything different, and I recommend that any Catholic thinking about a pilgrimage should take the time to seek out a TLM one. St. Charles Pilgrimages, the organization that ran mine, is teaming up a lot these days with FSSP and ICKSP clergy.
Overall, I would say visiting these historic sites really does bring home the reality of the persons and places involved in our Christian and Catholic faith. This is helpful in an age of "virtual reality" where we do not pay enough attention to the concrete dimension of things.
KC is indeed blessed: FSSP, ICKSP, SSPX, and Gower not far away!
Thank you for the info about St. Charles Pilgrimages. One definite takeaway from the trip is that we would like to do more pilgrimages. I have been afraid to sign up for some for fear of it not being traditionally oriented. Much appreciated!